Episode Transcript
Move to Tacoma Podcast Mayor Anders Ibsen
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: [00:00:00] This is Channel 2 5 3, move to Tacoma on this episode of Move to Tacoma.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Your average person I would say is, is lukewarm to benign. There are very few assholes when you actually knock doors, for example. Really? Yes. Um, yeah, it, it’s surprising. It’s the reverse internet, right? And so what most people say when I’ve asked them about their concerns, which mostly came down to.
Housing stability, homelessness, affordability, and just public safety, not feeling safe. Yeah. One of, one of my most memorable interactions, two of them actually, one was, uh, a lady who lived in the Lincoln District off of South 38th said, when I walk my dog, I drive him to the North End first. Mm-hmm. Uh, that was one.
The other was, uh, someone who teaches at a local high school who said. Four years I’ve lost, excuse me. In two years, I’ve lost four of my students to gun violence.
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: Channel 2 5 3 is member supported. I’m producer Doug Mackey, and I hope you’ll show your support by going to channel two five three.com/membership and join.
Thank you. We are back. [00:01:00] Move to Tacoma. Move to Tacoma. Move to Tacoma. You’ll like it. Move to Tacoma. Move to Tacoma. Move to tacoma com.
Move to Tacoma Podcast Host Marguerite Martin: I’m Margarite and this is Move to Tacoma, and I’m here today with Mayor Elect Anders Ipsen. Welcome to the podcast,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Anders. It’s an honor. Thank you.
Move to Tacoma Podcast Host Marguerite Martin: Yeah, thanks for being here.
Um, you have been on Channel 2 5 3 podcasts I think before, correct? Right. Okay. So I’m excited to talk to you about. How you became mayor. Like, how does that even happen? Uh, and what is it that you’re gonna do with the city, uh, now that you’re, I mean, you’re not really the boss of it as the mayor, right?
What, what is your job when you’re the mayor of a city?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, it is to make sure things happen. I mean, I, I would say that the position of mayor is something that, that we place artificial constraints on. I mean, it, it is true that we’re not a mayor council form of government in which the mayor is, um, an executive who hires and fires a team and runs the, the daily operations.
Uh, in, [00:02:00] in theory, strictly speaking, the mayor under a city manager form of government is one of nine votes. But in practice. Uh, there, there’s a, a quote in political science that I keep coming back to, and that is, it’s not, it’s not the title that makes the leader, but the leader who makes the title. Right?
Mm-hmm. And for me, it, it’s ultimately about representing people and having a theory of action, actually achieving things. Right.
Move to Tacoma Podcast HostMarguerite Martin: Can’t wait to dive into that.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Right.
Move to Tacoma Podcast Host Marguerite Martin: Alright. But before we do, when did you move to Tacoma and why?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, in 1991 I was four. My parents made me.
Move to Tacoma Podcast Host Marguerite Martin: Okay. That’s a good, that’s a, I I don’t think you’re the only one.
Sure. I think that there’s, there’s a strong legacy of people that have moved ’cause mom and dad moved them here. Sure. Um, and where do you live in Tacoma and what do you like about it?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Um, general North End area, kind of around the Proctor neighborhood. Uh, I, I love me some Tacoma. I’ve, I’ve bounced around different neighborhoods but never left.
I’ve lived in the West end, north end, south end. Um. I, I went to school, I commuted to Olympia. I was a greener, but, um, besides that, I’m a product of our schools. I went to St. Pat’s Truman’s [00:03:00] Stadium. I was actually a soda kid in their first class.
Move to Tacoma Podcast Host Marguerite Martin: Oh, that’s right. You were a soda kid. Yeah.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: And, uh, I, um. Uh, I’ve always, um, I identified with Tacoma just in the sense that what a lot of my, uh, my real estate clients with my private sector hat on for a quick second say, is that it’s not even just a question of cost or affordability.
’cause what does it even mean anymore? Tacoma is, is not very affordable for locals anyhow. It’s expensive. Right? But, but what I keep hearing from people say, PCSing here, relocating here for, for civilian work is that we’re enough and that is. We have this, this urban quality of life and the potential for amazing and innovative urban quality of life.
But without as much of the busyness, without perhaps the performative nature of some of the larger cities, uh, but with still the world class waterfronts, that the access to parks, uh, a literal ocean, a national park that people will literally fly from other parts of the country that you can just drive an hour and a half to get to,
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: right?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Uh, all the other amenities, all the opportunities, uh, if you’re a service member, just. All, all the more [00:04:00] reason, uh, and right here in my backyard, you know, and it’s, it’s, it’s enough. And that’s something that, uh, a lot of people told me and that I myself identify with.
Move to Tacoma Podcast Host Marguerite Martin: That’s awesome. So if I may ask you to be a little more specific, uh mm-hmm.
About your neighborhood of North Tacoma, Proctor area, what do you like about living there? What’s your favorite thing these days?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Honestly, I mean, I, I’m an old dad, right? I’m, I’m going on 40, I’ve got a 4-year-old. He tires me out a lot. Mm. And in between, you know, running a business and soon to be running a city and, you know, parenting a 4-year-old.
I mean, I, I just like to keep it, uh, pretty chill. I like to walk around, um, you know, read in a cafe, you know, go to Peaks and Pints, um, go to the farmer’s market. Uh, just, just experience my city, take my kid to the zoo. Uh, but there, there’s so much else. To do as well. I mean, I frequently go running with my friends, with the Tacoma Runners and with others at Point Defiance.
Mm-hmm. The waterfronts and other areas. It’s, it’s a very runner friendly city. And there are some great runner groups, for instance. Uh, we could make it more runner friendly, obviously, and that’s to, to preview a little bit, perhaps more on, uh, on the municipal side of things. But, uh, this is a
Move to Tacoma Podcast Host Marguerite Martin: unique problem to interviewing [00:05:00] someone who just became the mayor of a city, is that I keep asking him about his neighborhood and he’s like, but actually let’s talk about the whole city.
So I love that. Let’s just, let’s just dive in. You experienced it.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: It almost, it almost became my neighborhood. Yeah. Yes. Been everywhere.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: So the first thing is, is I know you already, I knew you before you were running for mayor, so we, I’ve known you since you were on the city council the first time a hundred years ago.
Thank you. When, when were you on the council before?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: 2012. 2019.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: 2012 to years ago, 2019. And you were young when you were on the city council
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: 25? Yes.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Yeah. So that’s pretty young. And you were, I mean, this is, this is the lore. This is, I’m just gonna explain Andrew’s lore, the way I explain it when I meet other people.
You were a two term city councilman. You were primaried by the Democrats, right? You were kind of too progressive for the Democrats. No, I, is that not, should I not say tell people that anymore? It’s
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: literally the opposite actually. Oh, so, so the Democrats actually entirely endorsed me. Labor endorsed me. Uh, I I was opposed by a conservative Democrat.
Uh, and I was, I was Oh, opposed by most members of the, of the city council, including the then mayor at the time. Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] Uh, I won. What I’d like to think is that since I, I’m not the kind of person who holds grudges, I like to focus on the work. Um. The majority of those people were co-sponsoring my resolutions and ordinances.
I was working on their stuff and we got right back to work. Right.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: So, yeah. Yeah. And clearly y’all did get right back to work, but I just think it’s an interesting thing and, and, and the thing that I always think is interesting about you is even without sort of the full establishment machine behind you, you can get reelected back then because you were a door knocker.
You’re like an in the streets person. You go face to face. With lots of people and you have the, the wherewithal and the capacity to do that, I call it. And I think even people that don’t know, you know, you get out there and talk to
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: people. I call it the reverse internet. So, so think of the worst toxicity of, of just the bottom crevices of, of the Reddits and the Metas and the Xs and so forth.
And imagine the total virtuous opposite of that. Imagine. Talking to someone face to face who might be MAGA or might be just otherwise totally the opposite to you and, and actually having civil human discussion and [00:07:00] dialogue and reas and sounds kind of cliche, but, but the realization that most people generally want the same things, and especially once you break past these artificial constructs.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: I have, okay, we’re coming back to this, the reverse
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: internet. Yeah,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: that is Okay. That is very interesting. Yeah. So the next stage of getting to know you, ’cause I knew you as a, a city councilman, as a public figure, but was, uh, I, I got to have you as a client, like I matched you to a realtor. That’s right. In like a very classic way.
Like that’s what I do for a living, is I help find people, a realtor. And then a few years later you came to me and said, even though you were already a real estate appraiser, you’ve been a real estate appraiser for over 10 years, right?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Yeah, since 2013.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. So you came and said, actually, I’d, I’d like to become a real estate agent.
And so now I know you as a peer, as a real estate agent, who I sometimes refer clients to, especially when they like someone very nerdy that knows housing data numbers like you are the chief nerd. Like I, I don’t know anybody that knows better housing numbers than you. So that’s a compliment battle. Well, thank you.
Yeah, like, so I think, I think it’s important to [00:08:00] say that like I have a professional relationship with you and not just because we’re colleagues, but because I’ve set you business. So I think like putting that on the table. Um, but I’m gonna still ask you very hard questions. Alright. Ask away. So now you’re running for, okay.
You have run for mayor. You were elected as mayor and I was really, I was actually surprised to hear that you were running for mayor when you told me. And, um, I think the thing, what was
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: the biggest surprise outta curiosity?
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: I think like the surprise is like, like you’ve got, you’re very successful as a real estate agent.
You’re
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: not the first person to say that. Yeah. Like,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: like, and the thing is, is like, look, we all act successful.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Mm-hmm.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: But you’re one of the top agents in the city and you got there very quickly. Like you’re very hardworking. And I would say the other part of this that I think is a, a side note from the, the real life internet, you know, face-to-face thing that you do, is you have a resilience in you that a lot of.
Politicians and realtors that do similar things to you, don’t have, like, you, people can get mad at you. And like you say, like, you’re like, well, we just get back to work. You know, or like you, you people don’t like you, and you’re like. [00:09:00] Whatever. Like that’s very unusual. Is that okay? I’ve never said that to your face before.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Okay. Well that’s appreciated.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Is it true?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, it just, I mean, I
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: assume you have feelings. Well,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: it’s, it’s not like I don’t have feelings. It’s just my feelings for what I want are stronger than the pettiness in front of me. The pettiness, not this pettiness. Is it
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: always pettiness? Is it sometimes
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: just disagreements?
No, this is just podcast energy, but Right. Other pettiness.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Right. But like when you’re out, I mean, when you’re out in the world, you’re gonna show up at somebody’s door and they’re not gonna like you just because. You’re a politician. Mm-hmm. Right? Or because they met you 10 years ago and they didn’t like what you did then this, how, that’s how a small town is a small city, right?
Like how, like, like, like is is it a fair characterization to say that you have a little more resilience than the average person around being disapproved of?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Um, I don’t know. I, I, I wouldn’t necessarily compare myself to that. I, I would just say that my approach is, is just. Disarmingly simple. I mean, I, I just want to win.
And for me, winning means that our city’s better people live better. There’s greater trust in the process and we have something to show for our efforts. And I, I just keep it focused on that and, and it, it’s [00:10:00] not like disagreement or drama won’t happen. It will. Yeah. But, but it, it’s more just keeping people focused on the things that matter and then we deal with the other stuff when we have time.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. So, alright, now, now this is starting to sound like our breakfast moment. You told me that you were running for mayor because I was like, what are you gonna even do? Like what? Like this is, this is my trauma, right? Is you’re not the first person I’ve known. Mm-hmm. That’s run for office and become an elected official.
And that experience for me has been really disappointing repeatedly because what I’ll do is I’ll have an ice breakfast with someone when they tell me that they’re running, or we will have a conversation in a hallway and they’ll tell me and I know them. I know that they. Are like me. Like they have these beliefs and they, they want to see these kinds of things happen in the city, and they wanna see these things happen in the government.
And then once they’re elected, um, it’s like there’s this veil that comes down. Yes. And they, uh, what about policing? What about housing? What about all this stuff? Mm-hmm. It’s like they all have to sign this contract with the city lawyer and can never speak candidly again. Mm-hmm. And so I’m, I, you can hear [00:11:00] how salty I am.
Like, I don’t wanna be like this. Yeah. And, um, but you’re, you’re the person in front. I’ve never thought I’d have a person I knew that ran for mayor and won. Mm-hmm. And now you’re gonna be elected like. What do you think you’re gonna be able to do? You’ve already been on the council, you know what the mayor can do and what they can’t do.
Mm-hmm. What do you think you can do? Well, I’ve, and what are you gonna do?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Sure. Well, I’ve worked with multiple mayors, city managers. I, I hired three executives, do city managers and utility director. Mm-hmm. So, so we have. Be aware of our limitations, obviously. Yeah. We can’t over promise, but just like in a, in a real estate situation, you don’t want to negotiate against yourself.
You, you, you don’t want to impose limitations that you don’t necessarily have power. Power is what people think you have. Right. It, it’s all a social construct. Right. Okay. And so what I would say, and people think
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: a mayor is powerful.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Yeah. I mean, no one knows what a city manager is. Right. I mean, people just, when, when people.
Were talking to me at the door that they were just upset and they said, oh, we, we need some change. Right. Right. People just think the mayor is who is in charge. Right. And, and so if you just articulate the vision and bring people along and just make sure that there’s good [00:12:00] overlap, right. It’s, it’s not about reinventing the wheel and doing things that are entirely out of left field.
It’s, it’s in, in my experience, more about realigning and trying to make connections between things that are already happening, uh, happening or haven’t even necessarily been articulated well. So for example. We have a really successful therapeutic court when it is applied in Tacoma. And for people’s information, therapeutic court is about alternatives to incarceration, right?
So some, some someone who’s nonviolent, who did something dumb like shoplifting or some other kind of property, crime, graffiti, what have you, instead of just immediately being booked into jail, which with today’s staffing problems and other dysfunctions in, in, uh, the. Penal and, and court system, it often just means being recycled out into the community and going through, through, through just a chaotic mess, right?
See also all of the, all of just the repeated morale problems among our police force and the community. Um, how about having something that’s more, um, humane in the sense of giving people a real option of getting treatment for [00:13:00] underlying problems? Ha having real options of. Writing themselves, being held accountable, being removed from the situations and, and undoing the harm that they’ve caused.
Mm-hmm. Because they have committed a crime. Uh, but. In so doing, avoiding incarceration, still being employable, still being hable and costing the taxpayer is a fraction of the cost. Yeah. I think
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: most people will get behind that. You say, we already have a therapeutic court, but we’re kind of not using it.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: It, it’s not being scaled to the greatest extent possible. Got it. And, and this is from conversations. Conversations I had with municipal court judges, people who are very enthusiastic believers in the system. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, but when it is applied, for example, when people go through therapeutic court, whether it’s drug court, whether it’s community court or some of the other subsets, uh, it’s, it’s insane.
The, the number of people who are successfully diverted from jail and complete their course is something like 90%. For example. Wow. So imagine if, if that was more systematically scaled, if we did something like that in greater partnership with Pierce County and, and perhaps with other jurisdictions. What more could we do?
How many people could we serve? How could we improve our city and, and build further confidence? So, so that’s an example of something [00:14:00] that’s potentially transformative and very innovative. But it’s not out of left field. It’s, it’s not the good idea fairy on your shoulder. It’s, it’s just taking something that’s already there.
Tweaking it a few different ways, bringing a few more people to the table and just scaling it and, and systematizing it appropriately. And what, see also home and Tacoma and other major policies.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: And you’re saying like, as mayor, I can’t just wave a magic wand and make that happen. No, but I should be the one that’s providing the leadership and the accountability to keep everybody moving in the same direction.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: And the focus and, and just, you said it, accountability. So one of the key ways, and so many of these things are just small, but subtle changes. So in the. In the legislative process, for example, this, this is a deep dive into the weeds. Um, tell me if I’m going too deep with any number of the things I’m rambling about.
Yeah, yeah. Um, whenever a member of the council introduces legislation in, in city hall, it, it goes through what’s called a c, c and R Council Committee request, which. It basically outlines, I’m going to do this thing, here’s how much it’s going to cost here, here’s what staff says it’s gonna look like.
Mm-hmm. Uh, but there’s, for example, there’s zero to do with timelines on this thing. So [00:15:00] what I mean, anytime you have a business plan or do anything in the private sector, right, you always define the end state, which is, you know, end of your revenue or market share or what have you, and. When am I going to get to that desired end state?
And what are the different benchmarks along the way? So why can’t we legislate the same, why can’t we, can’t we do that and have greater understanding of staff capacity and, and just have a clear administrative structure along with it too. So a lot of it is just this nerdy, kind of deep seated stuff, but it is very powerful and done.
Right. And back to the role of mayor, something that I’ve always told people about our wacky system in Tacoma, I is that, um, the notion that. Mayor, uh, under a city manager system or under the, the Tacoma system, which I would actually argue is not a pure city manager system. I’ll, I’ll get to that in a second.
Um, I would say at its best, the Tacoma mayor is less like being a governor. ’cause that’s, that’s what a strong mayor is, right? Mm-hmm. You, you hire a cabinet, you, you hire an, an amazing administrative team, you negotiate with a legislative branch and you just handle stuff day by day basically. And you maybe veto stuff you don’t like.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Mm-hmm.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: I would say in the Tacoma system where. [00:16:00] Unlike most pure city manager systems where the mayor is literally just a title. You are a council member and your colleagues on the council say you’re the mayor.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Actually, I, I thought that’s what we had.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: No, you run for mayor in Tacoma.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Oh, I see.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Okay. I ran for mayor in Tacoma.
Right, yeah. To
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: be the mayor, you didn’t get appointed by your peers. That’s correct. Yeah. Right. Okay. Got it. Yeah.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Over. 35,000. Some people said I should be the mayor. Right?
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Yeah.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: And, and so that, that’s significant. There’s extra staff, there’s extra access to executive level people there, there’s agenda setting, but beyond even just the soft power of, of those administrative and, and different kinds of relational details, the fact of the matter is, I would say at its best, the institution of Taco Mayor is more like a speaker of the house.
Yeah. So does anyone doubt that Lori Jenkins has power? For example,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: right? No. Right. I would never dare. Sure. No. No one would.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Right. And so and so what is a house speaker? Really? A house speaker is a policymaker, but also someone who leads a caucus. Got, it’s someone who got it. Got it. Who finds the areas of overlap, the consensus between a group of people and, and is just a cat herd or in chief Who, who makes sure that there’s [00:17:00] focus and a, a general direction.
The articulation of a vision and accountability for getting there. And I think at its best, the Tacoma mayor can do that.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. So briefly, like let’s just say you and I, you’re running, you’re gonna run for reelection. It’s a few years down the road.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: 2029. Yes.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Yeah. And you, you’ve been working away at this and you and I have another conversation.
Mm-hmm. Like what have you accomplished? Yeah. Like, what are you hoping to have accomplished in this first sprint?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Yeah, so, so the big things I’m running on are the things I’m gonna focus on in the first quarter. I mean, I’m, I’m loath to say a hundred days. It’s become such cliche. Okay. So you’re saying the things
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: you, that, that maybe you do when you door knocked and you talked to people, the things you ran on are the actual same things that you intend to It’s
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: shocking the things that people told me are important or things that are important to me that I want to do.
Right. Okay. So, and, and what are
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: those things very clearly so that we can hold you accountable.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: That’s the whole point. Right. Okay. So, and. Making sure that we’re doing a deeper dive. Right? Yeah. So overwhelmingly people are concerned about public safety. People want to feel safe in their neighborhoods, of course.
That they want to feel like they can be involved. Uh, they, they can actually step out and [00:18:00] participate.
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: Yeah.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: People want to see a meaningful, visible, tangible. Solution to homelessness, to the greatest extent we can, uh, in a, in a local government context. And people need to see greater opportunity in the, in the overall economy.
We need to see greater resiliency and, and more actual private sector jobs. Not just the reliance, the over reliance on the public sector that we’re seeing. For example, public
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: safety. Mm-hmm. Homelessness, economy. These sound. Maybe bigger than Tacoma. These
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: issues. Well, that that’s why we’re doing the deeper dive.
Right. Okay, great. If we just stop there, then they’re meaningless. They don’t, yeah. Really. Right. So, and also
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: like how can we hold you accountable when, how, this is the city of 200,000 people, right? Like right. What do we even all agree on? What’s. Safety is Sure.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Absolutely. Right. And, and so that’s why I always have follow up questions.
So, so I, my general shtick, whenever I talked with people at the door about what they needed was, it would always be, you know, knock, knock, knock. Actually, we’re on kind of a, a chincy podcast. Can, can I, uh,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: chini, how dare you, Chini
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: in the sense of being a, oh, my, the
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: tablecloth is chincy, but
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: effective and efficient and not extravagant is what I mean.
Right. Okay. All right, fine. [00:19:00] I’m over it. I’m, I’m Scandinavian. I mean, I’m the chancellor in chief. It’s fine. It’s fine. So yeah, I could doorbell you and show you.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. Show me. All right. What do you want?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Oh, hey there. I’m, uh, running for Mayor Andrews Ibsen. How you doing today?
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Uh, I’m great. What do you, what are you, what are you doing?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Okay. If you’re in, if you’re in the middle of something, I’ll make this super quick. I, I’m mostly just here in the neighborhood to not just introduce myself, but also just to listen and learn about what you think is important and just what you think the city needs to focus more on your opinion. Anything top of mind for you?
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: I don’t like, uh, driving down the road and seeing people camping on. I’m, I’m, I’m acting, I don’t like people. See, seeing people camping on the side of the road, I don’t think that’s very good.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Yeah, tell me more about that. What, what are you seeing around here?
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Uh, I just, I just see people, I see tarps. I’ve, I’ve seen some crazy stuff and I don’t wanna see it anymore.
And I don’t care where you put ’em. I just don’t wanna see them in my neighborhood.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s absolutely unsustainable. What we’ve had in Tacoma. We, we have a system that’s very reactive. We just move people from neighborhoods to neighborhood. I don’t think that’s sustainable or humane or responsible.
And, uh, what I support is working in closer conjunction with Pierce County and our, our surrounding [00:20:00] jurisdiction. So it’s not just the Tacoma show in that we’re actually finding sustainable methods of not just. Connecting people with shelter, uh, but also making sure that fewer people fall between the cracks and become homeless in the first place.
So I definitely support greater efficiencies with our nonprofit providers. This is a mouthful, Anders. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you asked, right? Yeah.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Well, and I guess what I’m, I guess what I’m looking for mm-hmm. I mean, I’m taking my cranky neighbor hat off now, right now, but like, okay. So there are people in the community that want safety or they want the perce, the feeling of safety that they get when they don’t see people suffer.
Yeah. Right, right, right. Like, they want the feeling of safety that they get when they don’t, people see people suffering in their midst, but they don’t necessarily mind if those people are suffering somewhere. They can’t see them.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, and actually no, and this is something I think you, you’d be encouraged by.
Right. All right. Tell me, tell me. Well, for, for starters, most people really aren’t cranky. Um. There, there is a surprising, benign ness to voters.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: I might be measuring this off the comment section. Yeah. Which you’ve already said is not the way to measure sentiment, public sentiment. Well, and,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: and that’s the thing is so much of, so much of what we’re talking about is immeasurable, right?
Mm-hmm. And so that’s [00:21:00] why the accountability is more nuanced. Um, but your average person, uh, I would say is, is lukewarm to benign. There are very few assholes when you actually knock doors, for example. Really? Yes. Um. Yeah, it, it’s surprising it’s the reverse internet, right? And so what most people say when I’ve asked them about their concerns, which mostly came down to.
Housing stability, homelessness, affordability, and just public safety, not feeling safe. Yeah. One of, one of my most memorable interactions, two of them actually, one was, uh, a lady who lived in the Lincoln District off of South 38th said, when I walk my dog, I drive him to the North end first. Mm-hmm. Uh, that was one.
The other was, uh, someone who teaches at a local high school who said, in four years, I’ve lost, excuse me, in two years I’ve lost four of my students to gun violence. Right. Okay. That’s a very
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: different type of,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: extremely memorable. Right. Yeah. And, and so. Generally speaking, when I’ve asked people with some, some examples more dramatic than others.
Right. Uh, other times it’s, it’s usually something along the lines of, uh, just I don’t feel safe. Um, you know, when people drive here, you know, [00:22:00] I, I do, I do things that are extra precautions. Right, right. And my follow up question to that was always. That you might have noticed in our, our dialogue was, okay, what are you noticing around here?
You know, around here? Yeah. Like how does that apply here? The neighborhood? Yeah. Right. This particular neighborhood. And most people when I, when I ask them that question, they usually, they didn’t quite backtrack, but they usually says something along the lines of, well, it’s actually kind of okay around here, but in general.
Interesting. And so what, what that tells me is that from everything from safety to homelessness to infrastructure, like potholes for example, so much of this is, I’m not saying less about. Individual a, um, actions and experiences in your own neighborhood, but the overall perception of the city as a whole.
Right. Because with crime, for example, we can talk about measurable, uh, performance metrics for how we can make 9 1 1 dispatching 20 seconds faster. Right? Right. We can do that. We should do that because that is life and death. Yeah. But even in a higher crime neighborhood, most people are not victims of crime.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: That’s so right. Okay. Right. Doug is making his, uh, go to break [00:23:00] face over your shoulder. So I’m gonna take us to break and then let’s, let’s come back to that. Let’s do a deep dive. Yeah.
Doug Mackey and Erik Hanberg: This is Eric Hanberg with Channel 2 5 3. I’m Doug Mackey. And Doug Mackey asked to keep this short, so here it is, $4 a month, $40 a year.
Supports Channel 2 5 3. Go to channel two five three.com/membership. More so we’d like to thank our members, especially our long time members. Now it’s too long move to Tacoma,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: and we’re back with Anders Ipsen, mayor Elect of Tacoma. Thanks Anders for being here. Of course. You were just making a point when we took it to break about how, when you talk to people at the door, like I was assuming people were very grumpy and had general complaints, but you’re saying no, like people generally haven’t experienced, well, they haven’t experienced an act of crime against their person.
Like they have this general sense that the city is unsafe. Correct. So. I definitely see this because like obviously I have a website that says nice things about Tacoma. Mm-hmm. And so if I say nice things or I [00:24:00] make nice videos about Tacoma, there’s always people in the comments that are like, this place,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Compton, oh, keep Tacoma Theater.
And you know, thank you
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: to Liz at Stockless Goods for encouraging me to buy the shirt Tacoma. It’s not that bad. Oh, great. Um,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: that shirt isn’t that bad either. Yeah,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: I know. It’s not so bad.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Doesn’t even look Chinsy either. It’s,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: it’s not at all. Right. Thank you Anders. You’re
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: welcome.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: But I think like, this is the thing that is tricky though, because you’re saying like, okay, so what we need to do is, well, you haven’t said this, but like, I’m assuming you’re saying like, okay, we need to shift the way people feel about the city.
Mm-hmm. And I can say, as someone who does nothing more than say nice things about the city, like, uh, believe me, like there are people have a problem with that part too. Mm-hmm. So like how, how can you be accountable? To changing how we feel about where we live, what, how, when everybody is gonna be measuring that off of their own things.
And some people might even be measuring it off of the vibes in the Tacoma subreddit.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Right. Right. And, and that’s. That’s a really great question. I think where we go there in terms of accountability is are we measuring the right things? Because a lot of the qua uh, the [00:25:00] quantitative ways that we measure, I, I think are very reactive.
Like I said, most people, even in more challenged neighborhoods will not be crime victims. Right? Right. So if our primary, um, ways that we hold ourselves accountable are things like 9 1 1 dispatch times. Um. How long does it take to get a response, things like that. Then invariably we’re, we’re talking to a very small subset, um, that
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: said, I mean, I would just feel better knowing somebody’s coming and they’re coming quickly.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Sure. And, and that that’s, I’m not. Dis I’m not, uh, disagreeing with that fact. But if we’re talking about general perception, I, I mean, one of the, one of the other common themes that people who, who brought up safety as a chief concern, um, mentioned was police presence, right? So it wasn’t necessarily, I want faster response, you know, when, when I am on the receiving end, but I, I want visibility.
And does, does that necessarily have to be police? Can it be a, a community service officer? Can it be something from the city, some visible, tangible thing that makes ’em feel safe? Um.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Well, and I mean, there’s big impacts, like depending on, you know, your what gender you [00:26:00] are, your race. Sure. If your other marginalized groups, like your relationship with the police is gonna be different and how safe you feel when the police are nearby, like that’s gonna depend a lot on who you are and where you live.
Right. Well it’s
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: interesting you bring that up though, because one of the chief complaints that you hear from say, marginalized communities is on the one hand, the feeling of being overpoliced, but on the other hand, the feeling that they’re taken even less seriously when there is a call. So, so it’s not like responsiveness doesn’t matter.
It’s not like it’s black and white. It’s about painting a bigger picture. And to be clear, when we talk about public safety and, and there are a host of other issues and, and a couple of other key priorities of mine, um, we’re not just talking about responding to problems, we’re talking about. Actually working on the structural details of community building.
Yeah. Because when I think of public safety, I’m absolutely thinking of a fully staffed police department. I’m thinking of a fire department that actually has, um, rigs and equipment and stations that aren’t decrepit, that aren’t risking first responder lives, that mm-hmm. That are act, that are actively, um, available to people in need.
I’m also thinking of. Vibrancy, social [00:27:00] capital and infrastructure that emphasizes walkability. I’m thinking of, of joy, like porchfest. I’m thinking of art, right? I’m thinking, I’m thinking of things that make people engaged in the community. I mean, back, back to my contact in the Lincoln District, that that lady who wants to feel safe, safety to me is a single lady walking her dog in the Lincoln District.
Mm-hmm. It, it means, it means. People can, it, it’s foundational. It means people have the ability to interact with each other and, and talk to people. So, so the, the details are absolutely essential in terms of how we measure that kind of willingness, whether it’s a survey, whether it’s, it’s finding some way of, of measuring that engagement.
But, but that, that would be what I’d really like to air on the side of is, is building social capital build, building the perception of Tacoma in a more positive direction. Uh, what I will say, real quickly before we get to your other question. ’cause I, I know you’re scheming there. Mm-hmm. Uh, something I think is really pertinent we should talk about, uh, in a more optimistic direction.
On, on the question of homelessness versus crankiness. Well, wait, wait,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: wait. We haven’t got to homelessness yet. Can we stick to safety for one more second? Okay. Because we do need to go to [00:28:00] homelessness
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: and there’s some real subtlety with perception there. I’ll just tell you that I I believe it, right? I believe
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: it.
And I I, I I can hear that you’re like locked into it.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Yeah.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. So the, the question that I have is. Why don’t we already have that? You’re coming into office and, I mean, I’m assuming all I can hear the, the only thing in my brain as you were talking was like, yeah, how are we gonna pay for it? I assume if we could have funded better firetruck and funded more community resource officers or whatever it is that you think is gonna make people feel safe, um, we would’ve already done it.
It must be that we don’t have money in the budget.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: That’s certainly a part of it. I mean, we’re, we’re, we’re a higher needs, lower tax-based community. We can’t just print money like Seattle or Samish or Bellevue can necessarily. Right.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. So if it’s just a part of it, what’s the other part of it?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, the other part of it is the alignment in the strategy.
So, for example, it’s, it begins and ends with. With funding and smarter allocation. For example, if I were to summarize the biggest problems with just the police and the fire departments, um, they both relate to staffing or funding, but in different ways. So with TPD, uh, we, we have [00:29:00] approximately 360 officers.
It, it should be for a minimum of full staffing around three 80. And as a result, you have a, a very young police force. I think an average, I think. Half or so have five years in the professional or less so, so it’s, they’re babies, right? They’re just very young officers on average, um, over time is rampant because there just aren’t enough bodies to fill the shifts.
And so you, you have this, this profound overextension that just makes it a purely reactive force. You, you don’t have community policing, you don’t have as much, uh, investigation for things like a drug house on the block, for example. Mm-hmm. So, so you, you don’t quite make as much progress on those things.
You, you’re just barely checking in to, to do the reactive work, right? Mm-hmm. So there’s no way around staffing there with fire. There’s staffing in the sense of responsiveness, but it’s also deferred maintenance. We, we have trucks that sometimes don’t work half the time, for example. Yeah. Uh, we have really old structures.
Um, okay. So, I mean, I hear this, I mean,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: I can’t imagine anybody who was elected mayor coming in wouldn’t want to make sure we have enough staff, staff enough equipment. But I mean, the word on the street is we’re actually gonna have to be tightening the belt on the [00:30:00] budget. Yes. So how can we be investing in mm-hmm.
Things that have been underfunded, if we’re gonna have less funding. Sure.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: And, and that’s why there’s a larger strategy above just these individual issues, right? I mean, when we talk about the budget, we’re talking about how we can look at every conceivable option on the revenue side, on, on making smart realignments within the budget.
Are there non-traditional ways that we can look at things like employee compensation, for example, if we’re talking about attracting and retaining key people instead? I’ll, I’ll just give you one example. Mm-hmm. Instead of just the core, you know, wages, benefits, um, what have you. Um. Aspects of compensation.
Why not look at key things that people really want, like childcare for example. Uh, or taking a look at things like perhaps loan forgiveness, especially in the wake of the dysfunction of the Department of Education. Uh, could we look at things that are more creative, that are less in, in, of an immediate hit on the general fund that can still have the same effect, for example.
So, so can there be greater creativity for that other non-traditional things we’re looking at? And, and that’s broader. Uh, can we look at procurement for example? I mean, why, why are there only two companies in the [00:31:00] United States that that. Manufacture fire trucks. I mean, we wonder why fire trucks cost half a million.
Mm-hmm. Uh, could we work in greater conjunction with other jurisdictions, the state, the county, what have you, uh, to have more innovative purchas Bulk,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: bulk order,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: yeah. Purchasing and procurement so we can command better prices for things that our departments need, for example. So, so can we, can we look at things that have not even been dis um, uncovered yet?
What I will also say though is announcer prevention is, is just 10 million pounds of cure. So something that, uh, I’m really interested in pursuing. On the public safety front would be scaling and working with our therapeutic court system. So we’ve, we’ve had some very novel successes. Um, our municipal court system has, um, what’s called therapeutic court, which is an alternative to, um, the normal, um, carceral system for non-violent offenders.
Mm-hmm. Um, not quite to the level of well found, so, so not people who are in immediate threat to themselves or others, but just dumb stuff. Right. Petty crime, shoplifting, graffiti, things like that, right? Yep. Uh, kids mostly, right? Uh, but there’s usually some underlying factor, right? So [00:32:00] wouldn’t it be great to scale the system that when people are engaging with it is tremendously successful in holding people accountable and restitution the, the victims of that crime, but.
Over the long term, um, diverting from a, the very expensive county jail process and, and the booking process and, and superior court potentially, uh, or municipal court and having a success rate of almost of well over 90%. Right. Okay. And so that means people. Stay employable. They stay hable and, and don’t become wards of the state further down the road.
Imagine if that could be scaled and systematized in greater conjunction with, say, the county, for example, if, if we could have a, a smarter approach that down the road saves significant sums of money and also transforms lives and keeps the community safe, that that’s public safety too.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. So whether it comes to public safety, like justice, like.
Uh, homelessness. What I’m hearing is, ’cause we’re not gonna have more resources Mm. There’s not help coming at the federal level. Most likely
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: there is some conversation about local options and we [00:33:00] can talk about that too.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. But just like, let’s, can we speak broadly? Yeah. If, and if we can’t let me know.
Mm-hmm. But like what I’m hearing in the zeitgeist is we’re not gonna have more money coming from on high. At the, at the city level, things are only getting more expensive. Labor goes up, costs of stuff goes up. Taxes are not going up so far. Like, you know, you, you have the budget, you have, you’re coming into this role as a leader of a team, but you’re not an, you’re not, you can’t just unanimously say this is happening or that’s happening.
Mm-hmm. Right. And so in each of these areas, I’m just trying to understand what specifically you’re gonna be able to do. Mm-hmm. To make any of these things happen. You’re saying the judges are saying, we have this court, we’re underutilizing it. Yes. So what I’m hearing is partnerships, and then with homelessness, we can’t unilaterally handle homelessness in Tacoma, right?
Mm-hmm. Partnerships. It’s all partnerships. It’s all
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: That’s one component, right? Right. So this is ultimately all legislative. This is ultimate, this is all ultimately a majority of the council, the city council, instructing our staff to say this is a priority. And so whether that’s [00:34:00] instructing
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: this. City’s staff.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Yes. And, and so whether that takes the form of an interlocal agreement, which we’ve already started the process of with homelessness, that there’s actually what’s called a unified regional, um, agreement with, um, um, with Pierce County, for example, to, to have more of a unified, regional approach, excuse me, unified regional approach is what?
Um, the new system stands for. Mm-hmm. And that’s all about removing the duplication that we, that’s rampant. Okay. Um, through these service providers, making sure there’s greater alignment of local policy and also better data sharing so that people fall through the cracks less and, and get the help they need while also burdening individual municipalities and, and their systems less so that that’s one such example.
Partnership. Yes. But also just looking at alternative systems. So back to the example of therapeutic court. We already have a system, we already have an infrastructure set up through, um, the municipal court system. Can we scale it and can we just put in place smarter procedures and processes? But how do we make it scale it
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: without spending more money?
Like, or is that, that’s why I said partner. Well, we’re already
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: spending the [00:35:00] money, right? So, right. That’s the question. Right. And, and so this is just like, how do we afford. Medicare for all right? I mean, we’re, we’re already paying an arm and a leg, you know, more than any other rich nation in the world for premiums, for deductibles, for recurring chronic sicknesses because people don’t visit the doctor because people take an Uber to the hospital versus taking an ambulance.
Right? 100 we, we are already. Far overpaying in terms of jail, in terms of bail, in, in terms of the, the ramifications of people missing bail in, in terms of people becoming unhousable unemployable because they go through the criminal justice system and all the ramifications of that. We’re, we’re, we’re talking about upstream and downstream problems to, to the tunes of millions of dollars and thousands of ruined lives.
Right. So we are already paying for these things.
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: Mm-hmm.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: And even if we are talking about upfront expenses, what we’re talking about besides just the dollars of savings, is we’re talking about doing something better.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. One of the things that I worry about when I, I’ve never like this is the second time I’ve had a mayor of Tacoma.
Even though you’re mayor elect, you’re almost mayor. You’re almost mayor, you’re baby mayor, you’re [00:36:00] nearly mare. Like, the other time that I had a mayor on was Marilyn Strickland and I knew a lot less about Tacoma 10 years ago when I interviewed her. Mm-hmm. And I feel like it’s a big responsibility to ask you questions and, um, I’m not really hearing.
I mean, I think you’re, you’re saying I, I, I believe the sincerity of, of what you’re saying, but I can’t really like put my brain on something that’s like, yeah, this is the step. Like, you’re gonna do this and then you’re gonna do this, and then you’re gonna do that. And I assume part of that is just because you have to collaborate with other people, and you don’t know exactly how this is un gonna unfold.
But in the spirit of, we wanna, you are an accessible person. You’ve, you’ve made yourself accessible to people one-on-one, right. In real life. Mm-hmm. How do we hold you? To a metric, what is the metric we’re holding you to?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Sure. So first and foremost, if we’re talking back to public safety, for example, we have to ensure that when we confirm the police chief, for example, and that when we articulate the, the funding, and because
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: we’re, we’re getting a new police chief and we’re getting a new city manager, like we’re getting a whole new and leadership and a [00:37:00] new judge.
Yeah. Judge. A whole new set of people. Right, right, right. Thank. Explaining that. Yeah,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: that, that as we fully staff the police department, for example, we have to make sure that there’s a clear through line, a clear understanding about where the resources are going and what the actual plan is for safety, so that, that we already have these plans in place and that that’s part of.
Part of the frustration that I’ve heard from so many people in the community too, is that, is that just having an ethic of following our own plans as well? I mean, we, we do have a community safety action strategy, for example. Mm-hmm. Uh, we, we do have a lot of these plans. We’ve had a violent crime reduction plan, for example, which you just have to follow it.
We, we’ve had some steps follow, but not all, for example. So, so a lot of this is about, again, back, back to the example of. Not necessarily something from scratch, but articulating and, and revisioning stuff that’s already there. We already have a very inspirational system in place. What if we actually scaled it and, and we invented new systems and processes and empowered people to come up with meaningful measurements according to it, like jail diversion for example.
That that is an incredible metric, right? Because that’s still [00:38:00] people being held accountable. That’s still very much related to perceptions of safety. That’s. The main reason we lost the, the Fred Meyer on 72nd and Pacific, for example mm-hmm. Was just rampant shoplifting and just, just the sheer demoralizing site of seeing people leave with shopping carts full of stolen goods day after day after day.
Mm-hmm. Um, from the perspective of the employees, the shoppers, even. Fred Meyer themselves. Right? Right. And, and so having that kind of accountability with that compassion is, is essential. So we can absolutely attach metrics to that. We already have some of them, but I think what, what’s more crucial, and I think more important than what, what I think you’re getting at with metrics is making sure we’re asking the right questions.
And so, well,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: yeah. And I mean, you’re, I, I know you and I’ve had conversations with you about various political things before, so I know you’re progressive. Mm-hmm. And I, I think I would say like. I think of myself as progressive. For a realtor, I think of you as progressive for a realtor. Mm-hmm. Right. I think of you as progressive for a Democrat.
Mm-hmm. Right? Like are, do you identify as a democrat? Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Alright. You I, so, but like now that you’re gonna have [00:39:00] power mm-hmm. Like. With my trauma of having all these friends that go in and then like suddenly they, what are, what are you gonna, I don’t understand what you’re gonna do. Am I asking this question too many times?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: No, that’s perfectly fine. You have abs absolutely every right to look at these things from every single angle. And that’s, that’s the whole point of public policy making. Yeah. It’s even
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: things like, like, okay. The Fred Meyer. So is the, is the, is the, is the success. Some something new opens there and they thrive.
Is that a metric of success in three years? You wanna see somebody’s opened a different supermarket there and they’re doing great because of the things you’ve changed. I’m just trying to look for like, what is tangible, like what can we really track here,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: here, here’s what I would say differentiates me from, you know, a mayor, come, come lately.
You know, new person with starry eyes, who gets a rude awakening, right? I know you’re not that
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: right? I, I know you already know what you can do. So,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: so the cliche of a lot of people in the political world is, you know, chess master, right? 40 chess, you know, like, you know. Having a plan articulating this, this, that and the other.
In my experience, that’s, that’s really faulty because. A good plan rarely survives contact with reality, not to mention eight other votes that you need. Okay. And, and it’s not like, it’s not like we [00:40:00] are helter skelter or willy nilly with quantifiable metrics. We absolutely need them. Yeah. But in some, in my experience, that’s what a really good staff member does.
The, the job of, in my opinion, the most effective visionary elected leaders is general articulation and vision. So instead of chess, I would say a much better metaphor for what good leadership and, and effective leadership means is more like the game of. Go. Have you ever played go before?
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Ugh. I’ve tried out.
I feel like I’m not smart enough. It’s, it’s really complicated. It’s,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: it’s deceptively hard, right? Yeah. Even though it’s simple. And, and so what makes go different from chess is chess, in my opinion, is, is not really an accurate metaphor for humans and politics because there are very specific rules and, and very linear moves that certain pieces can make.
And, and how are people predictable or linear in real life, right? Mm-hmm. People do all sorts of random shit, right?
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: Yeah.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Whereas what go is more concerned about is. Is the gradual domination of space in maximizing of options and minimizing options to the opponent. Right. And, and so in my experience, legislation and policy making e especially like if you talk to a, a lawmaker from the state legislature [00:41:00] where a really big signature bill takes multiple sessions to enact.
I mean, we’re spoiled. We’re spoiled. And locally government, you, you can actually pass big things in a year or two. Of course, we’re, we’re much faster so. In my experience, what really gets you there and what gives you maximum options and, and space, um, to interact with people and to get their ideas along is to articulate the vision of what you want.
Articulating the value that, for example, with public safety or with homelessness, that, hey, we shouldn’t just recycle people through the neighborhoods. We need, we need something that actually invest on the front end to keep people housed, to give people real options. So there’s a place to send them to, not just into another receiving neighborhood, for example.
Mm-hmm. That we need to. Think of housing as a continuum between helping people in crisis and housing affordability and home ownership. Right. Articulating that vision, coming up with, with specifics along those lines. And then instead of micromanaging and coming up with the metrics yourselves trusting the really competent staff that you bring in, which is why the city manager high is so bloody crucial, um, to run with that and have that kind of creative chaos.
I mean, that’s, it’s, [00:42:00] it’s like jazz, you know? Yeah. Like you have to know your scales, but you also have to improv too.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay, so this is, this is, I, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t have any like, resistance to what you’re saying. It’s just more like an, we’re doing jazz
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: right now,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: right. I, I just, I wanna know like, okay, let’s move to the city manager, for example.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That’s a really, that’s something that’s, it’s going to happen. Last time we got one of those. We did a whole nationwide search and they ended up appointing someone in-house and it felt from the outside looking in very icky. Mm. And then, you know, that city manager was in place for COVID for a lot of really important some stuff with the police.
Like a lot of bad, crazy things have happened and she has, you know, been at the nexus of that for the ire of a lot of people that wanted things to go differently. Mm-hmm. Right. So we’re in a fresh time. We’re gonna get a new city manager. Um, are we gonna do a national search? Are we gonna select one of those people?
Or is there some predetermined internal person? That everybody wants that I just don’t know about. ’cause I’m not on the inside.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, there is currently a national search. Um, I’ve, um, I’ve been privy to some of those conversations and it, it’s a firm that’s been retained to look at both [00:43:00] local and national people.
Are we gonna,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: are we gonna pick one of those people that they give us?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Um, yes. Uh, I mean the, the council, I mean the council has the final say because they gave us
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: some people last time.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Right, right. I know. And that, that was, that was frustrating for me as well. Right. Okay. But I mean, ultimately something I’m committed to, just as the mayor is making sure that we have someone that.
Really aligns with the values of the community and in, in my opinion, the biggest thing I’m looking for myself is transformative leadership. I mean, transformative leadership rooted in community. That’s the biggest thing I’m looking for, because for me, good enough is not good enough. We do need the skillset.
We do need the executive experience. We do need the understanding of how these systems work, how to negotiate, how to work with a legislative branch, but well,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: this person is. Kind of, I mean, maybe that that person would argue that, that that’s, this isn’t true, but I, from my perspective, they’re very insulated from accountability to the public.
Like you and the city council are sort of there to kind of field and direct what they do. Right? You’re their boss.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, that, that’s where leadership comes in. Right? And that’s right. That’s so how
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: do you actually like hold them account? Are are you [00:44:00] gonna hold them accountable?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, I mean, that, that’s where the, the hiring process comes in, is making sure that it’s not just about selecting someone, it’s about ensuring that the conversation and the process is the statement itself.
It, it is the accountability because we’re baking in the values and the expectations for what the community values, uh, and not even simply. Broader topics like public safety, like getting ahead of homelessness, like actually having a robust asset focused economic development plan, but, but ensuring that the inclusivity, the, the co-creation with the community, the accountability, the transparency that Right.
I think the
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: accountability is like the linchpin right now. Yes. I think like people do not. Feel like that position, I, I, I, I don’t, I don’t wanna, I can’t speak for the whole city, but I just feel right. It kind of feels like everybody just sort of does what they want in there and then they say it’s ’cause the lawyers told them they can’t talk about it or they can’t do anything.
And I know you know what you can and can’t do, which is why I keep pushing this.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: So, so what I say to that, and, and to be clear, I mean, uh, people have asked me about my own personal preferences and. Uh, about form of government, for example. Mm. [00:45:00] I mean, I I I’m not,
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: I’m not talking about like changing our form of government.
Certainly.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Yeah. And I mean, there are certainly areas of ambiguity with the city manager system, um, that, that is imperfect, right? I mean, I think I could be pragmatic and, and successful in any way. It’s, it’s the one we’ve got.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: So let’s work with the one we’ve got. What I
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: tell people with. Concerns about the current system is look at Tacoma Public Utilities.
Uh, we, we’ve had tremendous transformation there with the current director, Jackie Flowers. Uh, one of my best votes ever, uh, was appointing her and just the things that she’s instituted, not just in terms of great policies, but for example, retention interviews. Uh, with, within, um, the apparatus of TPU and
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: that applies to the executive conversation.
How, like, yeah.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, what that means is what, what the administrative vision is. So my job and my council’s job is to articulate the broad strokes, the big picture about how we want to get to the desired end state and what it means to feel safe, what it means to have a, a greater solution for, for housing stability.
So, in the, this
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: is what I’m not kidding though, right? If in the past the city manager was not accountable. To the people. If people didn’t feel like the city manager was [00:46:00] accountable, was that because of the council? Well, and and if that was the case, then how will your council be different? And can you even control what these other folks do?
Sure. Right. Like I’m, I, I, I feel like I’m asking like, really basic questions, but I really don’t understand. Right. Right. Like,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: and that’s because this is a really byzantine, convoluted system. It, it, it hasn’t worked optimally in the past and that’s something we need to do differently. So something I’m really interested in doing.
Through the city manager selection process, and it, it’s something I’m currently in discussions with right now is how to make sure that we’re daylighting the values and the needs of the community on as far in the front end as possible because Yeah, so that we know
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: they’re on board and we know they are willing to do what needs to be done or,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: or, or just that people know what’s the most important thing to the public.
So what I always tell people is that anytime you have a policy discussion, whether it’s the budget, whether it’s a major hire like this or anything. Anyone’s perspective and feedback matters the most on the front end. That’s when you have the most influence. By the time something is a vote on the floor, then it, it’s almost fade accompli, right?
Mm-hmm. So, [00:47:00] ma making sure that there’s as much room as possible for, for really dynamic public input. And also just that we’re tying in the accountability that we’re tying in. What our expectations are to the hire so that instead of just figuring it out later, or just having, having a neat plan after the fact, making sure the accountability and just defining what winning is, is, is on the front end.
And that, and that, that sets up the city manager to do well as well because they, they understand what it means to do well and to be a good city manager.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay, so a question I have, and I, I don’t know if this is one I I should ask in public, but like Sure. Can we afford a quality candidate? That you have faith in?
Like I feel like what happened last time was we put the, put it out there and the quality of the candidates wasn’t like we, like our budget doesn’t afford a salary that gets us someone really good. Mm-hmm. Or somebody comes to Tacoma and they work for three years as their stepping stone to a bigger city.
Mm-hmm. Like how do you, do you think we can afford somebody who’s great?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Well, I mean, it goes back to. Any other type of person we’re trying to attract and retain in the workforce. Right? People who who sign up for public service aren’t [00:48:00] necessarily just compensation oriented. No. Right? Uh, I mean, if, if they were just compensation oriented, they’d be in private industry, right?
People who, who sign up to be city managers. Um. Council members, um, utility people, what have you, there is an ethic of service almost always. Right? That’s a good reminder. And, and so compensation absolutely matters, right? Mm-hmm. But, but I think what what really matters the most in terms of retention as well as attraction, is frankly just getting our own house in order.
And that, and that’s primarily my own back to accountability. They don’t wanna come
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: to a. City where they can make cool things happen also they can. Right. And, and
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: even if there is disarray or at least the, the perception that there’s just a lot that needs to be reshaped, reshuffled, uh, that there’s just a lot of ambiguity in, in, in need of ordering, um, that they’ll be supported in doing so that they have political backing from the mayor and from and from the council in.
Having free reign to actually try new things and be bold and not be so risk averse. I mean that, that’s on us to set that tone. Mm-hmm. That’s on me, especially to set that tone
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: and so we’re looking for somebody that has the energy to drive that change. That’s what I’m looking for. And the patience to like put it all together.
Yeah. While also being [00:49:00] accountability and not just. Yes, reflexively saying no to new things and,
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: and having the courage to make sweeping changes. I mean, it, it’s okay to, to piss some people off. It’s okay to try new things. It’s okay to fire people. You know, it’s, it’s okay to, you heard it
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: here first, right?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: It’s, it’s okay to, to do things that, that have not been tried before or that have appear unsafe. I mean, the analogy I keep going back to is, and especially now in December, if you’re driving on I five, if it’s raining, you have to merge. Sometimes speeding up is the safest course of action. Mm-hmm.
Sometimes slowing down or stopping will get you killed. How is it any different from, with the community?
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: And that’s Tacoma.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: That’s everywhere.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: And that’s Tacoma right now.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: And that’s Tacoma in general? Yes.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay. Andrews, this has been so good. Do you have anything you wanna say for the record? I mean, I want you to come back when you’re running for reelection in a few years.
Uh, uh, I, I’m gonna have to go back through the transcript and figure out what you’re accountable for. Sure. But like, what, what is your final word on that?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Sure. Well, I mean, I, I appreciate the hard hitting questions. We’ll keep talking about this. If you want to ask me more detailed stuff, I have an interim email address before I, I get a, a [00:50:00] city email address.
Um, if you want to ask more detailed questions mm-hmm. Um, mayor elect ibsen@gmail.com. That’s all public record. After I get my. City email, uh, once I am, it’s going to be mayor@tacoma.gov after January. Um, you’re always welcome to reach out to me. Uh, if you have strong feelings about any of these issues, um, you’re, you’re always welcome to contact me, the current mayor and council, the city manager.
Um, my, uh, my request, my action item, if you are really interested in this stuff, is, uh, I would say of the most immediate pressing things that people should have influence on it, it should be the city manager process. Okay? If you have strong feelings about. The need for moving the city in a greater direction, just being grander, thinking on a bigger, uh, less risk averse scale.
This is really the biggest thing that makes the biggest difference because the most innovative policy, the metrics, all these things that you’ve been asking for mm-hmm. Uh, they are contingent on having enthusiastic, true believers with the follow through to do it. And, and that’s how we do it, is insisting on amazing people joining our institution and we need your help to do that.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay, great. Uh, Doug is waving at me, so [00:51:00] I have to wrap it up, but I have two emergency questions to ask you really fast. Yeah. Go for before we close out. Okay. The first one is, are you gonna stay? You’ve been so accessible as a campaigner, like going to people’s houses, asking for feedback. Do you still want people to tell you what they think while you’re in office, or are you just gonna be like less interested in hearing that?
That’s, I’m assuming you still wanna hear from people. That’s
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: literally the point of being represented in real life. Yes.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Okay, cool. The second one is your other job. Yeah. Our world Real estate world. Yeah. How will you keep, and I, I, I, I, I’m, I know we have like almost no time left, but like how will you keep a separation?
I know there are people that have messaged me that are cons. Concerned. Mm-hmm. Like how do you keep your mayor life separate from your real estate mogul life?
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Sure. Well, mogul, I appreciate the compliment. Yeah. Even before I was a candidate, I literally called my old city attorney. I asked him if I could still continue to practice and, and he basically told me in so many words, yeah, just avoid conflicts of interest and institute smart policies, and that’s what I’m doing.
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: Okay.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: All right. Well, people are watching you, Anders. They’re watching you. Yeah, they’re ready to, they’re ready to catch you in a mistake. I’ve got so many messages.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: I’ve been [00:52:00] watched for a number of years. That’s how it goes. Okay. And do you
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: feel like, do you feel like you’re ready to do
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: this? I mean, why else run?
Right. I mean, this is about improving people’s lives. It’s about doing the best we can to make Tacoma. Even better. It, it’s about innovating and it’s about sometimes upsetting the apple cart. And that’s, that’s what, uh, I’ve always, it’s what gets me up in the morning every day.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Well, I know you can handle it.
I’m very curious to see how this goes.
Tacoma Mayor Anders Ibsen: Alright, thanks so much, Marguerite. All right.
Tacoma Real Estate Agent Marguerite Martin: Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it.
Move to Tacoma Producer Doug Mackey: My pleasure. Yeah. If you like this podcast, check out, move to tacoma.com. Move to tacoma.com is a neighborhood guide, blog and podcast to help people in Tacoma Pierce County and beyond.
Find their place in the City of Destiny. More information@movetotacoma.com. Move to Tacoma is part of the Channel 2 5 3 Podcast network. Check out these other shows. Nerd Farmer, interchangeable White Ladies, citizen Tacoma Crossing Division. GR and Grain. What Say You and Kitchen. [00:53:00] 2 5 3. This is Channel 2 5 3.