Episode Transcript
Tamiko Nimura Move to Tacoma Podcast
Marguerite Martin: [00:00:00] This is
Marguerite Martin: Channel 2 5 3, move to Tacoma on this episode of Move to Tacoma.
Tamiko Nimura: I’m so mad that this is the kind of environment where we’re thinking, oh, it’s this thing that, oh yes, we should, you know, kind of remember, but not like, no, no, no. We are probably going to see our, seeing mass deportations already. I just read a headline this morning about, you know, immigrants being held in, you know, a, a hotel in Panama, right?
Tamiko Nimura: Um, from a few different countries. Um. It is happening now and my community has, has sworn to make that not happen, you know, that they would not let it happen again on our watch, and to have it happening again is just nightmarish and infuriating.
Marguerite Martin: Channel 2 5 3 is member supported. I’m producer Doug Mackey, and I hope you’ll show your support by going to channel two five three.com/membership.
Marguerite Martin: And join. Thank you. We are back.
Speaker 3: I’m Marguerite. And I [00:01:00] want you to move to Tacoma. Move
Marguerite Martin: to Tacoma. Move to Tacoma. Move to Tacoma. You like it? Move to Tacoma. Move to Tacoma. Move to tacoma.com.
Speaker 3: Hi, I’m Marguerite and this is Move to Tacoma, and I’m here today with Tamika Nimura. Creative, nonfiction, writer and public historian.
Speaker 3: You got it. Oh, I’m so excited to talk to you today. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Well, before we get into everything, I’d love to know when did you move to Tacoma and why? I moved to Tacoma in
Tamiko Nimura: 2004. For a job. Oh, a classic reason. A classic reason. Yes. So been here now, like close, you know, over 20 year, which is insane.
Tamiko Nimura: That’s a long time. Um, yeah, 20 years.
Marguerite Martin: And what neighborhood do you live in now?
Tamiko Nimura: I live in what I like to call the south of the north end. Oh, the south of the north end. And where would that be? Yeah, so it’s um, around a university that shall not be named. Um, and it [00:02:00] is, um, let’s see, so by Proctor Union. Area.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay. So you’re not far from Doug, actually. That’s right. Just like kind of the north side of Sixth Ave. That’s right. Got it, got it. Okay. Very cool. And what do you love about your
Tamiko Nimura: neighborhood? Uh, it’s super cute. It’s very walkable. Yeah. Um, it’s really fantastic to get to both sixth Avenue and to the Proctor Neighborhood.
Tamiko Nimura: And the Proctor neighborhood, though it’s going through lots of changes, just has so much to offer. Right. Yeah. There’s just, you know, there’s a post office and supermarkets and cute little stores and cafes and the library and the post office. Like, it’s just sort of what you can hope for in a walkable little neighborhood.
Tamiko Nimura: That’s awesome. And
Speaker 3: I mean, just living where you’re at, you’re kind of in the middle of everything. Everything’s pretty close to you.
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah, exactly. Close to parks for my kids to play in when they were little and my dog to run in now. Um, all those things. Lots of greenery. It’s a good, do you have like a
Speaker 3: hot recommendation for people watching?
Speaker 3: Like cool place to go, please place to check out like. Hot tip. Ooh,
Tamiko Nimura: okay. Uh, let me think about this. [00:03:00] I mean, in my neighborhood or? Yeah. Oh, in my neighborhood. Ooh, okay. Um, I mean, you know, cactus has pretty solid Mexican food. I. Um, and of course, you know, the, you know, metropolitan market is kind of our second home.
Tamiko Nimura: We just go there a lot. It’s, you know, it is
Speaker 3: the most cited reason that people wanna live in the north, you know?
Tamiko Nimura: Well, it’s funny, I moved from Seattle, right? Mm-hmm. And there was a metropolitan market up there that we used to go to. And when I came down here to look at jobs, I was driving around, I’m like calling my husband.
Tamiko Nimura: I’m like. Guess what’s here?
Speaker 3: We’re home. We’re home. Yes, exactly. That’s great. Well, the reason that I wanted to talk to you was because I think this is okay to say like you’re writing a book, you’re publishing a book. I am
Tamiko Nimura: publishing a book. And what is your book called? It’s called A Place For What? We Lose A Daughter’s Return to Tulle Lake.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And
Tamiko Nimura: what is your book about? Well, I’m still, you’re my first podcast interview about the books. I’m still practicing the whole, you know, elevator [00:04:00] pitch thing. But it is in a nutshell, um, how I was going through a very difficult time and decided to reread my dad’s unpublished book about his time being incarcerated as a Japanese American during World War ii.
Tamiko Nimura: I decided to reread it, respond to it. I learned that I hadn’t grieved him properly because he died when I was 10, and after that I went on a community pilgrimage to the place where he was incarcerated with his family. Wow. So there’s,
Speaker 3: there’s a lot there. So, you know, light reading. Yeah. Just a, just a Paige Turner.
Tamiko Nimura: So your dad is from this area? So he’s actually from California. Okay. Um, I grew up in California, shh. Before I moved here. Um, there are lots of US California expats up here. Yeah. You’re not alone. Um, and so, uh, I grew up in the, in the northern California area. Went to college in the Bay Area, came up here for grad school at [00:05:00] UW Seattle, and then moved down to Tacoma after that for a job.
Tamiko Nimura: Awesome.
Speaker 3: So, obviously Tacoma has a history, uh, of, we had a thriving Japanese community right in Tacoma, right before World War ii. Mm-hmm. And, uh. It was basically packed up and moved out Right. During that time. Right. What, uh, you know, we’ve had Michael on the podcast before to talk about this a little bit.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. If you were to give kind of like. The explainer, the 30,000 foot explainer of what happened for people that might not know a lot about it. Sure. Um,
Tamiko Nimura: so Japanese Americans came, um, really as, um, early as, let’s see, the late part of the 19th century. Um, mostly steam ships, um, and ended up building a pretty thriving downtown community in the downtown core.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, so it was a good like 12 blocks ish or so downtown. And there were like open markets
Speaker 3: Yes. And all different kinds of. Stuff, right? Yeah. There
Tamiko Nimura: were photography studios, um, suite [00:06:00] shops, barber shops, um, import export stores, restaurants, hotels, um, all operated by Japanese Americans. Um, and then the farmers from Fife, um, Japanese American farmers would come over, sell their produce here, ship things out.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, and because we had the port right, there was a pretty direct steam ship line right from Japan to here. And when they got here, they saw. Um, they saw, um, our, our beautiful mountain and said, oh, it’s just like our mountain back home, just like home, just like Mount Fuji.
Speaker 3: Do we have any real, like what is the consensus on how many people we’re talking about?
Speaker 3: Like how many, how big was that community?
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah, so, uh, you know, we, the, our records are, you know, a bit sketchy, but I, we believe that we’re about 700, 750 ish folks who, um. Basically got forcibly evicted from downtown Tacoma, um, on May 17th and 18th, 1942. Um, but you know, the [00:07:00] city’s Japanese population was also, you know, kind of fluid in that there were folks coming in and out, right?
Tamiko Nimura: Like there was, there’s the farmers right there were here from Fife. Um, but we know that the number was about 700 something people. Um, so when executive order 9 0 6 6 was signed, um, by President Roosevelt in 1941, um. You know, 82 years ago today, um, the, um. That then authorized the military to create, um, exclusion zones and, uh, roundup and ship Japanese Americans on the West coast, um, to, um, incarceration camps all over the place.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, the folks from Tacoma got sent from here on a train down to, um, Pinedale, which is by Fresno, California. Um, from there, um, they went to Tulle Lake, um, in northern California, which is where my family was. So I’d like to think that. They might have, you know, brushed elbows or something in the mess halls or something like [00:08:00] that.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, and then a lot of people from Chile Lake, um, either stayed there or they went to like Minidoka or Heart Mountain, so Wyoming or Idaho.
Speaker 3: And I think it’s, you know, I hadn’t really, I mean, I know I must have learned this much about it in high school, right? Yeah. It’s, yeah. You’re not alone. It was a footnote.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, maybe in the nineties. Yeah. We fought for a paragraph. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And to, to discover like. I think Eleanor Roosevelt was actually passing through Tacoma. Yeah, that’s right. When this happened. That’s right. And made a call to her husband and was like, what the heck, what’s, what’s going on? Yeah. I mean, how fast did this happen?
Speaker 3: How fast did they decide we’re gonna incarcerate all the Japanese Americans? Yeah,
Tamiko Nimura: it went relatively fast, right? So, Des you know, Pearl Harbors in December, um, you know, executive orders 9 0 6 6 is signed in February, mid-February. Um, and I want to say that I believe in May or so, or when. Folks in the area here, um, started getting, uh, started having to basically, you know, report and register and go, um, on the train.
Tamiko Nimura: [00:09:00] So May 17th, 18th, after that. Right. So just a matter of, you know, a few quick months really.
Speaker 3: I think when I first heard this story, I. I had, you know, my like very privileged lens, my bi patriotic, you know, oh, I’m sure that they just like packed people up and it was no big deal. And they came back and got all their stuff back and everything was fine.
Speaker 3: And clearly that is not what happened. That is
Tamiko Nimura: not what happened. So what happened? Um, so, um. There, especially in our district and here in Tacoma, um, there was a very racist legislator named Albert P. Johnson, um, who Michael likes to talk about a lot. Michael Sullivan. Yes, that is. And um, he really hated the Japanese and he passed a lot of laws.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, and one of the laws that was in place at the time is the Japanese immigrants. So people like my grandparents. Could not own land, right? Could not own businesses. And now in other parts of the country, and even in some places around here, [00:10:00] um, the immigrants would then kind of buy things in their kids’ names because the kids were born here and they had, you know, birthright, citizenship and, you know, could own and, and operate property.
Tamiko Nimura: But, um, here. They cannot own a property even. And so once the folks who were here, um, left, almost all of them lost what they had here. Well, and
Speaker 3: it’s not like they could bring even their possessions really with them, right? No. It’s very
Tamiko Nimura: limited amount of stuff you were able to bring. No, no. The line that we’re told, that we’re told as descendants is all that they could carry.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, so there’s this. Amazing picture of a little girl. She’s like a toddler down at Union Station, right when they were leaving, and she has a little brown paper bag that she’s carrying because they had. To use whatever they could Right. In order to bring what they could. So they packed up, you know, what they could carry right in suitcases, bags, whatever.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, and down at Union Station, um, there were military making sure Right. That they, you know, could quote, you know, be [00:11:00] helped on the train. And you know, the pictures from that time are very like people smiling and you know, even the armed guards are smiling. Oh my God. And it’s a happy time. But of course it wasn’t, right?
Tamiko Nimura: No. They were leaving their home and they terrifying. And, and right a and after they left right downtown was dramatically changed.
Speaker 3: So I’m sure you grew up with an awareness of this history. Right. Um, you said your father passed when you were really young. Right? I don’t think very many of us have like a, a full memoir from our fathers to revisit later.
Speaker 3: Yeah. When you went back and read his story. Yeah. What surprised you knowing the history, knowing like an intellectual understanding of the history? What, what, what were, what did you learn?
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah. Oh gosh. Um, so many things that you’ll have to buy the book honestly, to see available soon. But there are some things that really surprised me for sure.
Tamiko Nimura: Right. Um, one of the most. We’ll say, um, surprising and delightful things is that I learned I could actually talk to my dad again
Speaker 4: by
Tamiko Nimura: rereading his book. [00:12:00] Um, you know, he’d been gone, you know, 30, 40 years by the time I started rereading it. And, um, there were places where I was like, wait, how did you do this?
Tamiko Nimura: Or what about this? You know, there were questions that I found myself asking. Yeah. Right. And then there were things where I was like. Wow. Now that I have, you know, studied this history, read about this history, known so much more about this history, um, there were even more questions that I wanted to ask him.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, there were beautiful things that the community did, um, where he was incarcerated. So they had, um, like a kite flying contest. Um, because when they got to their, um, when they got to camp, you know, they had all these people to like. Occupy, like Right, keep busy. And so what are they gonna do all day? What are they gonna do all day?
Tamiko Nimura: They hadn’t built schools, theaters, you know, churches, whatever yet, right? Those would come a little later. But, um, when they got there, the, the old, the immigrants, the east say, decided we’re gonna have a kite flying contest. So they got like, you know, newspapers and scrap paper, scrap [00:13:00] wood from whatever they could, and.
Tamiko Nimura: Built, you know, it had a whole contest about, you know, who could build the best kite and fly it, um, and who, you know, who could go the farthest. And I read about it in my dad’s book and I was like, are they the only ones who did this? You know, who else did this? And so I looked it up in, um, densil, which is our fantastic nonprofit in Seattle, um, devoted to this history.
Tamiko Nimura: And there were in the newspapers was, you know, a little, a little article about a kite flying contest. Um, and it was really beautiful, right? To see, but it was also so poignant, right? Because. You know, these were people who, you know, were building things to fly free, right? Mm-hmm. You know, if they just cut the strings right.
Tamiko Nimura: The kites could fly and they could not, right? So it was a really painful and beautiful moment at the same time. Um, there are other things that, um, I learned that, um, I really had to, um, I had to become the writer that the book was demanding, which is why it took me. So long, um, to write it. I started writing it back in [00:14:00] 2010.
Tamiko Nimura: This is how long it’s taken. Wow. To take this, to get this book, um, into people’s hands. And we hope to get it next year. But so many things that I think were really, um, powerful and important for people to learn, particularly today.
Speaker 3: So how long? Was your father there?
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah, so he was in, uh, two different camps.
Tamiko Nimura: There was a, um, quote, temporary detention center. Um, they called them assembly centers. There was, that was in, um, Marysville, California, Northern California, really rural. And from there, um, he got moved to Tulle Lake in Northern California and he spent another three year about close to three and a half years there.
Tamiko Nimura: So he was incarcerated from the time that he was 10 to when he was 14. Yeah.
Speaker 3: That’s incredible to imagine, like really growing up, having your most formative years in a prison. Yeah. There. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what other surprising things did you discover about what day-to-day life was like for him? At that age?
Speaker 3: Yeah, in
Tamiko Nimura: that
Speaker 3: place?
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah. I mean, [00:15:00] you know, I had, so I did read the book, um, before he died, which is something that, um. I should add. Right. I was as a little, like a little person. Little, yeah. Yeah. He gave it to me when I was maybe eight. Wow. Nine. Right at the And you read it? And I read it. I mean, I was a very precocious reader.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say
Tamiko Nimura: nerd. Yeah. Very nerdy reading. Yes. Good job. Yes. Been reading and I go way back, so I. Decided that I would, you know, I, I read it, but you know, I was a kid. Right? Yeah. I really didn’t know much, you know, much of what was going on. And, you know, as the years have gone on, so much more has come to light about this history right there.
Tamiko Nimura: People have, you know, really since. Learned things about Japanese American resistance, right To the incarceration. That’s what the graphic novel that I co-wrote is about. But that is a relatively new story for a lot of people. ’cause the textbook version, right, is sort of like they went, it wasn’t a problem, right?
Tamiko Nimura: It was peaceful, all of that. But inside the camps, um. In all these ways, there were all these forms of [00:16:00] resistance
Speaker 3: and, and what is the name of the graphic novel that you just referenced? Oh, thank you. Yeah. Um, it’s
Tamiko Nimura: called, we hereby refuse Japanese American Resistance to Wartime Incarceration. And what did that resistance look like?
Tamiko Nimura: All kinds of things. So there were the legal challenges, right to uh, all the way up to the Supreme Court, four cases. Made it to the Supreme Court. Um, there were work stoppages, there were hunger strikes. Um, there were resistance to the draft. There were mass protests, um, places where, you know, the military was supposed to address everybody at a camp and nobody showed up.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, lots and lots of different kinds of resistance, um, petitions to the president. As well. And what was the impact of that? Well, um, you know, it took them four years to close the camps. Right, right. Um, so, you know, different impacts. I mean, you know, some of it were, some of, some of the impact I would say is that, um, you know.
Tamiko Nimura: People took heart, right. And to cope in that resistance. And then some people were [00:17:00] really unhappy with that kind of resistance because what happened for Japanese Americans during the war was that their loyalty was questioned. Right? Right. And so, um, some folks thought that the very best way to show your loyalty was to go fight for the country that had imprisoned you.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, others, um, like my uncle and my grandfather, um. Knew the Constitution knew things like free speech. Right. And thought, what are we doing here? Yeah. Right. Um, we are going to not comply with these kinds of questions that you’re asking us. They’re catch 22 questions. Um, so anyway, the four cases that made it to the Supreme Court, um, out of those one was successful.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, that of Meet ca Endo. She just got the, uh, presidential Medal of Freedom, um, posthumously. She, um, in her case was, uh, one that the Supreme Court had decided unanimously that yes, the United States cannot. Detained, admittedly [00:18:00] loyal citizens like she was, um, you know, she was born here, um, like my dad. Um, so all that’s, you know, about two thirds of the folks incarcerated were American citizens, right?
Tamiko Nimura: So birthright, citizenship and the Constitution should have meant that they should not have been incarcerated. Not that saying that my grandparents should have been Right. Incarcerated either, but yeah, if we’re actually going by the letter of the constitution, then yeah, they shouldn’t have been.
Speaker 3: It’s hard not to, to think about the context of the this moment and all of the executive orders we’re seeing and all of the things that don’t look particularly legal, but still seem to be happening.
Speaker 3: Yep. It, you know, it’s not exactly inspiring to think, yeah, okay, this thing happened and then you go and you fight, which is maybe better for your mental health, right? But in the end, they’re gonna end it when they decide to end it. Right. Right? Like is, did I just take the total wrong lesson from your story?
Speaker 3: No. Like what is, what is the, you know, how do you [00:19:00] contextualize that as, as you watch the news today? The thing is today, I
Tamiko Nimura: mean on the one hand right, is. It is our, it’s our, it’s our community nightmare. Right? We, you know, there are survivors who devoted so much of their lives to saying, we were, we are not gonna let this happen again on our watch.
Tamiko Nimura: Right? And yet, here we are. Right? Right. And so, um, I believe a lot of us, a lot of us descendants have taken up that mantle of keeping that history alive. There’s still so many folks who know so little or nothing right. About the camps, um, that. You know that these were incon unconstitutional. And on the other hand, um, I also take a lot of heart and hope in, um, the kinds of resistance that we’re seeing, um, from different communities.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, on Sunday, I’m gonna be speaking at the Northwest Detention Center at a protest and rally, um, sponsored by PSED for Solidarity, which is a Japanese American direct action organization. Um. Basically intended to be an abolitionist one to close down [00:20:00] these kinds of private prisons. Right. Really to, you know, abolish prisons.
Tamiko Nimura: But to really, you know, um, target these particular kinds of sites. And for people
Speaker 3: don’t know, uh, there’s a for-profit, uh, detention center here in the Tide Flats of Tacoma. Owned by Geo Group, right? Northwest Detention Center. That’s right. Um, you can Google it. We’ll put information. For all this in the Thank you as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah, it’s actually now they, they keep shifting the name, I think, because they think they, oh, is it called
Speaker 3: something new now? It’s now it’s called
Tamiko Nimura: the Northwest Ice Processing Center. Ugh. Well this is probably what I’m gonna talk about on Sunday though, right? He did, I don’t, I don’t know if people know this, but um, that exact address, that exact site was a meat packing center.
Tamiko Nimura: Before it was a prison, before it was a prison.
Speaker 3: All right, well let’s take a break. I wanna come back to this and I wanna dig in more to, you know, how much we don’t know about our own history. Great. What we don’t know, and what lessons we can take from that as we go [00:21:00] forward. That sounds great. Thanks.
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Speaker 3: move to Tacoma, and we’re back with Tamika Nimura.
Speaker 3: Welcome back. Hi. So we were just talking about the, the history of Japanese incarceration in the US and in Tacoma in particular. And I think I was saying, you know, I just have such a. Cursory knowledge of this history, and even though we have, so we have so many organizations that are dedicated to education and certainly following you on mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: Different platforms online. I’ve learned a lot over the years. Like you say, having, oh, thanks Michael Sullivan on the podcast. In the past he has spoken about it, but what do you think people don’t really, what do you most often see that people just don’t seem to understand about America’s history and Tacoma’s history?
Speaker 3: With [00:23:00] Japanese incarceration.
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah, I think, I think people tend to think about, um, Japanese American incarceration as a sort of flash in the pan, right? Yeah. Or a one time kind of thing, and that it’s not a continuum of racist history in the United States, quite honestly. Okay. Right. So a lot of people tend to start this history of incarceration with the attack on Pearl Harbor, right?
Tamiko Nimura: Yes. With Japan’s attack. Um, but in reality. The United States government was following Japanese immigrants, right. Surveilling them pretty much from day one. Right? And then passed all these laws and policies right against Japanese, specifically against Asians. That there’s a longer history of anti-Asian racism, right?
Tamiko Nimura: That we don’t necessarily get once we start talking about Pearl Harbor first.
Speaker 3: And that created the conditions. Yes. So
Tamiko Nimura: when
Speaker 3: Pearl Harbor
Tamiko Nimura: happened, they just, yes, exactly. It was more of the match, right? Than, you know, the actual building of the, but you know, the fuel was already there. Mm. Right. Um, you know, and you could see it very clearly and, you know, [00:24:00] the Japanese propaganda, the anti-Japanese propaganda, right.
Tamiko Nimura: In the newspapers, um, of the time, you can see people equating, um, with the same word, you know, the, the, the word jaap, right? Which is a slur. Um, they would say, you know, Jaap P’s about to leave for, you know. You know, for, you know, greet pastors, you know, for, they were about to leave for, you know, parts unknown.
Tamiko Nimura: And then right next to it you would see like headlines about the Japanese army in the Pacific, right? So there was, you know, a really direct conflation there, right? And there were all these political cartoons. There’s a, you know, very famous Dr. Seuss cartoon right about, you know, anti, you know, anti-Chinese, um, folks and lots of anti-Japanese stuff as well.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, so. You know, and, and you know, if we think about it, you know, a little further, right? There’s a history that this country has right. Of, you know, trying to isolate, you know, groups. You know, we not far from here, we think we could think about the Cushman boarding school, right? And native folks. Mm-hmm. [00:25:00] Um, there’s a long history of this country running people up, particularly people of color, right.
Tamiko Nimura: And, um, you know, trying to say that they are dangerous, other, less than human.
Speaker 3: Yes. And you know, it’s, I am, I’m in my mid forties, you know, I mm-hmm. Went to elementary school in the eighties. Yeah. I graduated in the nineties. And I think, like, I came up in this period of like, you know, the arc of history is bending towards justice. You know, like this happened. And of course, to a degree it’s still happening, but we’re cleaning it up.
Speaker 3: It’s getting better and I, I don’t think I, I have believed that for a while, and I don’t think anybody paying attention to what’s happening can believe that our past is not directly informing the decisions that we’re collectively making now. Absolutely. Uh, as we other people. Mm-hmm. I mean, what you’re describing when you talk about headlines next to each other Yeah.
Speaker 3: Policy headlines next to racist headlines. Like that’s happening now. That’s [00:26:00] happening every day today. Yep. Yep. And so when, when you look at what’s happening, what are the lessons, um, that you would like to see at? I dunno, I’m imagining people watching just going like, you know, that, get it.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: What do we learn from the past? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This is who we are, first of all. I mean, that, that’s, that’s the first lesson I’m thinking of. Yeah. This isn’t coming out of nowhere. No. These decisions that we’re making. Yeah. This is who we are. Yeah.
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So what do,
Tamiko Nimura: what do we do? Um, well, I like to think that, um, that resistance and solidarity are.
Tamiko Nimura: Our, where we place our hopes and collective resistance and solidarity are where we place our hopes. Right? That, you know, the, the organization that I’m speaking for are with on, um, Sunday at the Northwest Detention Center, um, suited for solidarity, has been partnering with la. Cia. Right. Which has been, um, you know, a, a force in the community trying to help those detained in the detention center now.
Tamiko Nimura: [00:27:00] Um, and really out there, you know, as an encampment, right. Protesting and trying to make sure that the prisoners inside are being heard. Mm-hmm. That, you know, when they go on hunger, strike that, that I sense CIA as one of the first people that they, you know, organizations that they contact. Um, and so I think, you know, we need to think about solidarity.
Tamiko Nimura: We need to think that. Um, we’re not, we’re not powerless, but we, when we can, and so much of this is ma is meant to make us feel powerless. Yeah. Because it’s meant to make us feel alone and isolated. Um, but the only way we’re gonna get through all of this is together. I.
Speaker 3: Well, and it does seem like increasingly over the years, you know, everybody is more consumed by design, by the system.
Speaker 3: You know, we are working, we’re surviving. Mm-hmm. And not on top, on top of that, we all seem to have lost our social skills, our community skills, a little bit in the, in the pandemic. Yeah. And this idea of, okay, like find solidarity, find Yeah. Collective.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: It’s like everybody’s trying to [00:28:00] figure out how that works.
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And is it just, is it as simple as, well maybe start following liver reist, like start following some of these organizations? Mm-hmm. Or is there, is there more to it? Is there some sort of internal shift? Mm, that has to happen before you can really. Be collective when you’re been an individualist your whole life.
Speaker 3: I mean, most of us are really socialized to be Oh, sure. I be, that’s capitalism, right? Right. Yeah, it’s right. Yeah. If you were wondering, right.
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah. I mean, I know we’re, we’re meant to feel alone, but we’re, but we are by design, I think really meant to be together. Right. Um, we are. You know, there, there are so many organizations, there’s so many folks doing such good work.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, I guess I also want people to know that, you know, they don’t have to start alone either, right? Yeah. That they’re, you know, there’s certainly, you know, three 50 Tacoma, indivisible Tacoma, there’s lot of scia, there’s su for solidarity. Um, and you know, there’s also things like, let’s make sure that we know this history.
Tamiko Nimura: Let’s make sure our kids know this history. [00:29:00] Um, let’s educate our kids. Let’s. Taken, let’s take them downtown, right. To Tacoma. You know, there’s a free walking tour that my husband and Michael Sullivan and I created where you can see these sites, right. Um, where Tacoma, Japanese Americans lived. That’s amazing.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, in the past, and, you know, some photos from when they were actually evicted on Union. At Union Station, um, every May, um, I work with the Washington State History Museum and hold a day of remembrance for specifically Tacoma Japanese Americans in the days that they. We’re forced to leave the city. Um, so that’s one other small thing that they can do, but you can start small, right?
Tamiko Nimura: Um, it’s really those, you know, larger things, right? Those larger actions that, um, can make a difference.
Speaker 3: And when you think about like what people can contribute, um, I think that there’s this confusion right now of like, well, I don’t even know what I need to do. Sure. And I, I, I know this sounds like a really simple question, but like, in [00:30:00] order to have the kind of communities that are connected that can resist Yeah.
Speaker 3: Um, yeah. Oppression. Yeah. I mean like are there, is there room for people that bake? Is there room for people that babysit? Like, like how does this sound? The revolution will
Tamiko Nimura: always have better
Speaker 3: snacks. Yeah. Thank you very much. I one would hope Yes, but I mean, is that a, is that a, I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m trying to ask a serious question that’s also like.
Speaker 3: Accessible to regular people? Like how, what I, I, does it look like sign waving? Does it look like protesting or are there other ways to plug in and be supportive of communities that are really going through it right now? Oh, absolutely.
Tamiko Nimura: I mean, you know, there are ways that you can, I know that we think that pro protesting and sign waving and marching are sort of the things for resistance, right?
Tamiko Nimura: But there are also. Super meaningful ways that just get a lot less press. Yes. Yeah. That’s what I’m looking for. Um, so another group that I’m thinking about is, is the, uh, Northwest Immigrant Rights Project. Yes. Um, which is the, which does really great work. Yes. You know, even if you’re not into necessarily for whatever capacity, you know, you’re not.
Tamiko Nimura: Up for [00:31:00] like being outside the detention center, making signs, you know, whatever. Um, you can make a monthly donation right to the N-W-I-R-P. You can make a monthly donation to suited for Solidarity or Latter Asencia. Um, you can make sure that your kids write are reading the, you know, the kinds of histories that you want them to read, which are more complete, more accurate histories.
Tamiko Nimura: Of our country and our city and our state and our region, you can make sure that black history doesn’t go away. That A API history doesn’t go away. Um, that you’re still celebrating them. I’m going to, right, right. Um, that, um. You know, if you know someone on your school board, right, is making noises right about the kinds of books, right, that you know your kids can or can’t be reading.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, you can look at, you know, book bands. There’s a whole great organization called Authors Against Book Bands that has just started up. I think really if you just start looking at, you know, some of the best places for people to follow, um. [00:32:00] I like to, um, follow the work of, let’s see, I think it’s Kelly Hayes and Maryam k Kaba on, uh, blue Sky, um, who wrote this fantastic book called Let This Radicalize You and it Re which sounds maybe for folks that like, oh, I don’t know, radically.
Tamiko Nimura: I think we’re all there. Oh no, I, it’s, I think we’re ready. You know, they wrote this before the election, published it before the election, right? And you, you read it and you’re like, okay, this is what I need to do now. They read it, they read it for young people, right. To be organizing. If you can’t feel like you can go out and support, you know, things yourself, you can certainly find an organization to support.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, I try to do my little like, resist calls or my resist texts. You know, every day, um, there’s resist bot, which is super easy. There’s five calls.org. Yeah. Um, you know, but really like making noise with our Congress. Um, you know, their power is being taken away too. So we really all need to be, you know, if they’re, you know, working in ways that align with our values, we need to support them.
Tamiko Nimura: They need numbers [00:33:00] that say, I have this many cons, constituents, right. Supporting me. If they’re not aligning with our values, then we need to tell them. So, yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, that was good that I didn’t tell you to have a whole speech prepared on, uh, how to resist, um, impression from the largest empire in the world.
Speaker 3: But, um, that was really useful.
Tamiko Nimura: Well, good. Um, empires also fall.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, the astrology is clear.
Tamiko Nimura: It is actually, from what I heard, it’s actually, it’s clear. Yeah. I’ve been following this too. Like we were this new age of Aquarius. Yeah, yeah. Um, if you read the stuff from the seventies, right. You know folks from some of the really great writers like, you know, Tony Kid Bama and Tony Morrison, you know Audrey Lorde.
Tamiko Nimura: People who are writing around this time, you’re like. Are you sure you’re not writing about this right now? Right. Actually, you know, the other thing I guess gives me a little bit of comfort is that we’ve been here before. Um, not all of us survived, but you know, a lot of us have been here before, um, as a country, as movements, as organizations, and we [00:34:00] have, you know, we have numbers on our side too.
Speaker 3: Mm. As that expression about history, not repeating, but, but rhyming. Rhyming, yes. So in that, in that, oh, sorry, Doug, about the mic, about that, um, you know, your book is coming out in the coming year mm-hmm. 2026. What does that, what does that. What does it mean to be publishing a book like this right now?
Tamiko Nimura: Um, I really had a hard time figuring out how to announce it, even because I’ve been working on it for so long.
Tamiko Nimura: Right. I mean, I wanted to bring my dad’s story, you know, along with my story to, you know, a larger public. This is over a decade and a half right, of working on it. Right? Um. So I’m on the one hand, I’m just overjoyed. I’m so happy that it’ll actually, you know, come to light that my dad’s words will finally get published even.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, and, um, it’s with the University of Washington Press, which is a really dream press for people publishing about Japanese American incarceration. There’s, they’ve [00:35:00] done, they’ve done fantastic titles about this topic. Mm. And I think they will know what to do with the book. I’m also extremely furious. That it’s so terribly relevant right now.
Tamiko Nimura: Right. I’m so mad that this is the kind of environment where we’re thinking, oh, it’s this thing that, oh yes, we should, you know, kind of remember, but not like, no, no, no. We are probably going to see our, seeing mass deportations already. I just read a headline this morning about, you know, immigrants being held in, you know, a, a hotel in Panama, right.
Tamiko Nimura: Um, from a few different countries. Um. It’s happening now and my community has, has sworn to make that not happening. You know, that they would not let it happen again on our watch and to have it happening again is just nightmarish and infuriating.
Speaker 3: Thank you for doing what you’re doing, sharing I I all of the [00:36:00] work of the last decade to help people that don’t already understand who probably should understand better.
Speaker 3: Because I mean, I mean, it’s not, it’s, it’s not just one community. I mean, this is what you learn, right? Yeah. As it starts, it starts here and then it, no one is going to come out of this unscathed. Yeah, yeah. No one, no
Tamiko Nimura: one’s gonna be exempt from all of this horror show.
Speaker 3: I, I, I feel like I’m supposed to do a little Well, um, you can find Tamika’s book. Um, but I, what I really wanna ask is, is there anything I haven’t asked you about, you know, that you wanna make sure comes across for folks? Like, this is something that is a historic, it’s something, it’s something that happened that is happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Tamiko Nimura: Yeah. Um, there’s a journalist that I follow, um, his name’s Ed Young. Um, he used to write for The Atlantic and then he left the Atlantic. He was covering, uh, [00:37:00] COVID particularly, and I watched this fantastic talk about, uh, that he gave at a journalism conference. And one of the things that he said that stuck with me is that one of the most important things we can do as humans is to bear witness to suffering.
Tamiko Nimura: So I hope that all of us can, and it’s not gonna, you know, you can’t do that alone. Right? It’s, it’s, it’s a lot harder to do it alone. So I think all of us are gonna need to figure out ways that we can bear witness to suffering and to try to alleviate it wherever we can, however we can, in the smallest ways we can.
Tamiko Nimura: Even, it all adds up. It all counts.
Speaker 3: Hmm. That’s
Tamiko Nimura: good.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you for coming on and talking about this. Thanks for writing the book. Thanks for having me. And we’re gonna drop links to as many of the things you mentioned here into the notes so people can follow up, educate, plug in, and uh, find solidarity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you said. Yeah. [00:38:00] Thank you. Thank you.
Marguerite Martin: If you like this podcast, check out, move to tacoma.com. Move to tacoma.com is a neighborhood guide, blog and podcast to help people in Tacoma Pierce County and beyond find their place in the city of Destiny. More information@movetotacoma.com. Move to Tacoma is part of the Channel 2 5 3 podcast network.
Marguerite Martin: Check out these other shows. Grit and Grain. Nerd Farmer, interchangeable. White Ladies What say you, citizen Tacoma and Kitchen. 2 5 3. This is Channel 2 5 3.